Thursday, October 8, 2009

Sites Which Are AGAINST Dubs

Finding sites which review dubs in a very fair light is a rarity, especially on the internet.  There, people can post all kinds of opinions, no matter how ridiculous they may be.  Here are some sites which I find totally offensive and a slapping insult to dub fans.  Be forewarned!

http://www.fuzakenna.com/ -- "There are no good Anime English dubs"?  Seriously?  How can you expect me to believe that?  Seeing this entire post made me angry; OK, so he DOES acknowledge Vic Mignogna's performance as Edward Elric in Fullmetal Alchemist, but everything else about this site?  Don't even bother wasting your time.

http://ghiblicon.blogspot.com/ -- I really, really dislike this website.  The owner of this place practically hates every dub Disney has done except for Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, and Ponyo.  To say that they're consistently horrible and that Ghibli should only be in Japanese is both a very unfortunate, one-sided argument and a slapping insult both to fans of these movies in English as well as Miyazaki--he personally had NO PROBLEMS WITH ANY OF THEM.  Yes, this guy does make recommendations to obscure movies, but dub fans, AVOID AT ALL COSTS.  And as a sidenote to a certain comment I received recently about how this site makes "excellent" reasons why the dubs are "bad"—to me, a person who makes comments such as "I am firmly against ever dubbing a foreign movie" is NOT someone whose reasons I would consider valid for any reason.  Especially since so much of his "arguments" are over such trivial issues.

Dub Haters at MyAnimeList -- They even dare to put a cross on Crispin Freeman, one of the best voice actors of all time.  He was terrific as Spark in Lodoss TV, Tylor, Zelgadis in Slayers, Regal in Tales of Symphonia, and just about anything else I've heard his voice in.  That should tell you something about this place.  Luckily, this place DOES have a Dub fan section.

And there are lot of others that I won't even dare to mention.

I'll be honest.  I confess to hearing some truly hideous English tracks such as Demon City Shinjuku, M.D. Geist, Love Hina, Roujin Z, and the Streamline distributed dubs of Akira and Laputa -- both of which are thankfully available in newer and more improved versions courtesy of Geneon and Disney, respectively.  But a good majority of the dubs I've heard (which may not be as many as other "anime experts" declare) are at least passable to great.  This is why sites such as these only compel me to stand behind my position as a dub fan.

At the same time, though, it is unfortunate to see how narrow-minded a lot of internet Anime fans have shown themselves to be when regarding dubs; a good many of these so-called "unlistenable" dubs have performances that naysayers are truly missing out on.  (Seriously, half the time I listen to said "horrible" dubs makes me wonder if the "reviewers" in question saw the same English version.)

Ultimately, I shall say this:  whether a dub is good or bad is dependent on the viewer.  It's totally subjective.  There is no "only way" to watch Anime; nor are there any rules for dissing English dub actors and fawning over the Japanese actors, talented though they may be.  Dubs, and translations, for that matter, are a form of art.  They are here to stay, no matter what purists may feel about them.  Fans who watch dubs are just as much Anime fans as sub-fans are; there's no superiority contest.  It's just a preference.

17 comments:

  1. Hmm the Roujin Z dub was not at all good, but I wouldn't call it hideous. It was full of actors who were largely miscast, and way too many awkward lines for my liking, but it was a very witty script (I liked all those silly acronyms which were not in the original script myself). Still it's not my kinda dub at all. I must question Justin Sevakis's ears a little here, since he reviewed that dub so well, but called Patlabor and Shingu terrible, which neither are (both are actually quite good IMO). Personally I liked the dubs on A Wind Named Amnesia, Cyber City, and Dominion Tank Police much muhc better then the dub on Roujin Z (same studio and director for all these dubs). Those are some exellent dubs there, esecially Cyber City and Amnesia. Anyway great post, very interesting. And I too think it's really unfortunate to see how narrow-minded many fans tend to be...

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  2. Very good article and I understand your position. I see a lot of unnecessary hate against dubs, and towards people who prefer them over subs when as you said, it's merely a preference.

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  3. I'd also like to point out that Miyazaki also said that he thinks the only real way to fully understand his movies is to learn the Japanese culture so his aproval of the dubs could just be based on that reallity.

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  4. Maybe so, but the fact is that if there really were anything about the Disney dubs that were truly offensive to him, he would have been the first to say so. As far as he's concerned, NONE of Disney's dubs have offended him in any way. (Hey, he's even said to have APPROVED of Joe Hisaishi's own rerecorded score for the Castle in the Sky dub, like it or not.) So many of these "criticisms" from purists about the dubs are so hard for me to take seriously because 1) it's obvious that a lot of thought was given to each dub, and 2) the folks at Disney are skilled at what they do, and I have yet to hear a dub from them that offends me. To me, all of their dubs are just fine. Are they perfect? No. But they're certainly nowhere near bad or unlistenable.

    I realize that not everyone has to agree, but I would be much more tolerant if naysayers wouldn't try to shove their views down others' throats or even allow them to think otherwise.

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  5. Well said, you should checkout this artical on Anime News "Anime Dubs, Not inferior"

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  6. I actually DID read that article a long time ago, and I agree with it for the most part... although I DO think the writer was a bit too aggressive in nature. Even so, there are plenty of wonderful dubs that get unfairly maligned for whatever reason, and we at AEDR feel that this atmosphere is undeserved.

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  7. Honestly I think the Dub Haters at MyAnimeList was a Joke. I mean they can't be serious and this is coming from someone usually prefers subs.

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  8. In the "English Dubs, not inferior" article the writer tackles the whole question of "subs are better because you get to here the original voices" and counter points with the argument that all animation is dubbed and to think that one is better just because its first is just pretentious. With the case of Akira though the voices were recorded first and the animamation was done second in order to match the vocal perfomances so its not dubbed, would at least in the case of Akira the above argument hold ground? No offense to the new dub I thought it was great.

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  9. Well, the answer to that question is yes and no. It IS unusual for Japanese animated films to do the "prescore" process, as AKIRA does, but even then, Disney animated films go through this process, too, and they are dubbed when released overseas anyways. So in the end, it is still a cel drawing. The only thing that counts is whether the dub in question is good or not.

    And like you, I personally prefer the new dub of AKIRA to the godawful older one Streamline distributed so many years ago; there just wasn't so much care provided with dubs back in those early days as opposed to now. Likewise, with CASTLE IN THE SKY, I most definitely prefer Disney's dub, for, while it's not without its faults, it's still lightyears ahead of the older dub Streamline distributed, which, again, was so stilted and dry I can only wonder how anyone could say that Disney's is inferior to it.

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  10. I think I know why a lot of people have a dismissal towards dubs. Before I got into anime I was into foreign films and was totally accustom to subtitles. I absolutely refused to listen to dubs though, it looks stupid when it doesn't match the lip movements and it camps everything up(imagine Takashi Shimura and Toshiro Mifune being dubbed over in Seven Samurai and Ikiru) I was however just fine with animation dubs because after all there just drawings not actual people. But then I was exposed to some really bad dubs like Yugioh and Rurouni Kenshin(yes I thought the voice acting was mediocre at best) I switched to the Japanese versions and found a HUGE difference in quality and that became my first and lasting impression with Dubs in general. I know better now of course, with the likes of Funimation but I think a lot of people exposed to the bad Dubs have a preconceived notion that all dubs are like that.

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  11. Are there any subs you perfer over the dubs? I know Dubs are your perference but Subs are my perfernce and there are still some dubs I would rather watch such as ROLW ova and Waltz of Bahir(I hope i spelt that right)

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  12. I honestly can't think of any Anime that I like subs over dubs. While there are some dubs that I DO find subpar, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's better in Japanese; it could be even worse. It's just harder to tell since it is in a different language.

    But to answer your question, no, I can't think of any Anime I like better subbed. I just can't connect well with Anime reading subtitles and hearing a language I don't understand. No offense to the seiyuu, of course, but I'd rather give the dubs the benefit of the doubt.

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  13. "a slapping insult both to fans of these movies in English as well as Miyazaki" Now personally I think such comments are unwarranted, he's just expressing an opinion on his own website. He never accused Miyazaki or fans of these movies for liking these movies in English, heck he had no problem with his commenter's conflicting opinion on his negative review of Cars. If discouraging viewers from watching dubs was all he did or was the main focus, then I would see where your coming from, but for the most part he just reviews the film as a whole in depth and in my opinion does much more justice than insult to Miyazaki. If you look at why he doesn't like the dubs as well as the handful he appreciates, maybe you'll see where he is coming from. Remember we all have different opinions.

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  14. Yeah, I know. But I still was pretty turned off by his bashing of them. I understand we're all entitled to our views as well. I merely listed his site because I just don't agree with what he says. If you want me to rephrase my reasons, I'll gladly do so, but that doesn't mean I agree with him. I guess I was just too turned off by that aspect of his site to even care about it.

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  15. Sorry if I was too aggressive. I just felt the way the site was labeled made it looked like it was another DUBS SUCK BECAUSE SUBS ROCK site when in reality its a well organised and dedicated Ghibli rally point in support of promoting Studio Ghibli.

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  16. I have to say dubbing sure has come a long way. For the longest time I was only aware of dubs from the 1980s to 1990s. But then I watched Black Lagoon and Cowboy Bebop just to sample and OMG! the difference in quality was amazing, I'd even go as far to say they work better in English do to the racial backgrounds. Too bad not very many more are being made though...

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  17. I'll start out by saying that I generally stick to the subs of anime, though I check the dubs to see if it's something I can tolerate or enjoy. I don't consider myself on one "side" or the other, as debates of this nature tend to overuse labeling and pigeon-holing to fit you somewhere you might not belong. There is a vast distance in-between the extremes, and nobody is necessarily right or wrong in their opinions, as it comes down to preference... but many fall short of sharing their thoughts in a respectable manner, I agree with you on that.

    Now, for my opinion and background on the subject:

    I was brought into the anime scene with the subs of Bleach, before the dubs were released. I preferred the subs, but not simply because I 'got used to' the Japanese actors, or that the dubs were subpar - I generally disliked dubs due to how the 'par' level is defined.

    Howl's Moving Castle was the first Ghibli film I had experienced, and the first dub where, as I sat there in awe, I said to myself 'THIS is how dubs should be'. It has a STUNNING dub, and while there were some big stars cast for the roles, I feel that it was the composition of the spoken dialogue, and the coaching/direction of the actors that set their dubs apart from the rest.

    I think many of the popular english voice actors that you see in laundry lists of anime are very talented, but the idea in how to translate japanese culture and convey speech/dialect is inaccurate, even if well-intentioned. It's not that they're not hitting their mark; they generally mimic and use the same rhythm, tones and overall flow of the dialogue. But when you carry these things over without further localization of the script, the performance can fall short of an American cartoon of the same calibur, and feel sort of alien to 'anime outsiders'.

    Now - whoever is responsible for Ghibli's dubs has (in my opinion) the right target. They don't aim to simply copy Japanese inflection/rhythm/mannerism directly into English as one would perhaps do with a block of foreign text and a raw translator (the message comes across as you read it, but if you weren't aware of the translation process, you'd be lost in trying to figure out what they were trying to say). They instead aim to localize the entire experience into something that doesn't require you to understand that "that's how they speak in Japan", or require you to understand "Japanese humor" in order to laugh.

    Anyway, that's my rant. Since Bleach in 2006, I've watched many dubs, and while talent surely is involved, my feeling is that the dubbing process is misguided. My preference is to have the dub projects localize the entire experience of an anime, while maintaining the spirit and original intentions of the Japanese origins. A great example would be most of the more recent (re)translations of the Final Fantasy games for the DS and even the GBA (text, not audio, but the concept is similar for comparison). They are still accurate, but a majority of the dialogue is quite contrasting to even the original US debut, while still conveying the same thing.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I hope my own rant has coalesced into something understandable. There are "in-betweeners" out there, and not all sub-lovers are dub-haters. I hope I've set a decent example and not stepped on any toes!

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